Curse

Formosa · Nov 10, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25

I ran a high pressure build with Vocal Minority and Well of Silence (we had pets) and we got pwned by the FotM Warder/2 Paragon/Fertile Thumper build in Halls , even with another good guild helping us kill them (we usually beat these teams 1v1 with ease).

So yeah, IMO a build is broken when it's direct counter can't beat it.

phasola · Nov 10, 2006, 07:27 AM // 07:27

It's not broken. Don't get paragon counters, get monk counters. Try 2 surge and tell me if that works.

Formosa · Nov 10, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

It's not broken. Don't get paragon counters, get monk counters. Try 2 surge and tell me if that works.

Necro's elite was Depravity, forgot to mention.

If you don't know what it is...

10e 2s 25r
For 21 seconds, whenever target foe casts a spell, nearby foes lose 7 energy.

So meh. And actually I just checked and PUMA was running 3 warriors and a bonder.

CAT · Nov 10, 2006, 07:52 AM // 07:52

2 warriors/thumpers and 2 hex stack necros is extremely effective against this build.... using warriors to inturrupt a monk convert and hex stacking the vocal is key to the build, but the 2 paragons are totally useless with vocal on them. Be smart with inturrupting the fertile, remember that frozen and edenail always help with taking.

Luddendorf · Nov 10, 2006, 07:54 AM // 07:54

A counter build isn't necessary a good build. There is also the issue of player/team skill. You can't draw any conclusions from that one example.

I haven't seen tombs the past few days but I highly doubt that nobody is able to beat the paragon/thumper build with regular success. Any info on this?

Mental Leteci · Nov 10, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Can anyone give me info how that 2 paragon/thumpers build work? I didn't play for a while so I want to see why is it SO hard to beat it?

Y O U Lo Se · Nov 10, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Can anyone give me info how that 2 paragon/thumpers build work? I didn't play for a while so I want to see why is it SO hard to beat it?

devensive build vs defensive build vs defensive build=holding team wins

Bread Fan · Nov 10, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Mental Leteci this new fotm is hard to beat due to the excessive defensive skills. When people run bonders you can at least strip enchants, e drain the bonder or the best thing is to d shot/interrupt blessed sig. Now with the standard two monk backline you also have the paragons "shouting" heals and "incoming" which cannot be interrupted. I see others saying bring e denial mesmers etc... but you are better off with an oob hex spammer with oob, vocal minority, faint, life siphon, malaise, parasitic, well of silence, res. Also rampage as one works without a pet so that enables the thumper to bring fertile and symbosis for holding.

subterra · Nov 10, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Can anyone give me info how that 2 paragon/thumpers build work? I didn't play for a while so I want to see why is it SO hard to beat it?

Sure -

Basically, it's 2 Mele chars that have a permanent 25% Run Boost and 33% IAS with KD and DW (Some use Bestial to add Dazed). In the holding version of it thumpers bring Fertile. The pure gimmick version of this and the best altar holder is a W/E with Earth offhand and Ward of Stability and WaM instead of a second Thumper.

The 2 P/W's are setup to where one is almost pure damage reduction and the other is pretty much a battery with healing chants. One carries Watch Yourself, other Shields Up as the warrior skills. The rest of the skills are healing chants, armor buffs and e-management skills.

I believe both Paragons are setup something like this -

P/W 1 - Incoming [e], Stand Your Ground, Fall Back, Song of Concentration, Shields Up, Anthem of Flame, Go for the Eyes, Res

P/W 2 - Mending Refrain, Song of Rest, Ballad of Rest, Energizing Finale, Watch yourself, Brace Yourself, "some skill", Res

It is quite difficult to knock off the altar unless you bring direct counters to the build. Now monks are bringing Divert Hexes to counter the counter. E-denial is probably the best route now. 6/10 Groups are now running this so it's FotM days should be short lived.

I Mean I · Nov 10, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

I owned the 2 P 2 thumpers 2 monks build with my condition pressure remember incoming doesn't negate the degen^^

Dr_Knockboot · Nov 11, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

wouldnt roaring winds be a nice addition in a build to counter the paragons?

Brother Redmund · Nov 11, 2006, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread Fan

Also rampage as one works without a pet so that enables the thumper to bring fertile and symbosis for holding.

Not any more.... I was in a team playing a slightly modded version of this build that had just won 4 rounds on it's way to halls this morning, with myself as the thumper. At the end of the dark chambers (we won) we got the please-exit-program-a-new-build-awaits-you-message. Upon re-entry, Anet had fixed Rampage to the point where it no longer activates without a pet. So immediately spirits such as fertile become a little redundant in the thumper bar, unless you are prepared to sacrifice hammer attacks to make room for the spirits.

benjef · Nov 11, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

played against them with the Fotm in the end we rolled it they won so we resigned otherwise it was going no where

Mental Leteci · Nov 11, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Well, if you ask me: 1 warrior,2 rangers,shockwave ele - yes,degen build, would kill this. As far as I can see they don't have anything to slow down degen. Also, only damage is coming from 2 thumpers which are totally useless if you have stability+melee up.

Vindexus · Nov 11, 2006, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Hexes with some of them coming from Domination. Backfire, Shame, Diversion and Panic come to mind, although Migraine is also good. I'd basically go for making a build with hexes that piss of monks, and then fit Vocal Minority into it somewhere.

Mental Leteci · Nov 11, 2006, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Backfire,E-Burn,E-Surge.Power Leak,Mind Wrack,Shame,Energy Tap,Res

I got half of my fame with this build and I've been using it since E/Mo smiter days

I Brother Bloood I · Nov 11, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Malestrom ftw...

Lord Mendes · Nov 11, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Brother Bloood I

Malestrom ftw...

moving is ftw imo...

phasola · Nov 11, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Just run surgers. You're not gonna hold, but you'll beat this easy. :P

Bread Fan · Nov 11, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Heh ya rampage as one was FINALLY fixed. Just goes to show you what inadequate testing team that Anet has. GREAT update yesterday Anet. See you fixed all ever so important PvE crap that we are all so concerned about...